A decade ago today, I failed out of school

"E90M3" (e90m3)
08/04/2019 at 12:25 • Filed to: Life lessons with E90M3

On August 4, 2009 at precisely 12:25, I received the following email:

Thankfully, I was able to overcome this set back; however, before we talk about what I did we need to talk about how I got into this predicament.

I did alright my first semester at Tech without studying much. I took four classes and ended up with a 2.76 GPA. Then again, I had pretty much taken classes I had taken in high school. I had done both AP Chemistry and AP Calculus AB and gotten 4s on both exams. While a 4 wasn’t good enough for chemistry, it was good enough for Calculus. I ended up getting Bs in both Math 1501 and Chem 1310, without too much work. I think I had convinced myself that I could do Tech without studying, much as I had done in high school.

This mentality wasn’t good enough for my next semester. I took Calc II, physics 1, inorganic chem, inorganic chem lab, and computer science for engineers. I dropped CS after the first test, and was doing alright in a couple classes, but for the most part I was struggling. My progress report was pretty damming.

I wasn’t able to fix my performance in either physics or inorganic chem. In fact, I also tanked in Calc II. My final grades from this semester were completely terrible.

That hurt. I dropped from a 2.76 to a 1.8 GPA. Which I should point is the minimum GPA you needed to stay in Tech as a sophomore, and because of my AP credits, I was a sophomore after this semester.

This semester took me from good standing to academic probation. I went ahead and skipped warning.

After this semester, I pretty much had to retake everything. My dad, who also went to Tech, called this my redshirt semester. Summer 2009, wasn’t much better. I retook both Calc II and Physics I. After the first test, I dropped Calc II. It was a calculated decision since I did so terribly that I couldn’t afford to fail the class. Looking back at the grade distribution, I made the correct decision; I think over 30% of the class got a D or F. I managed to scrape by and get a D in physics.

This dropped my GPA from a 1.8 to a 1.68, which was bellow what I needed to stay in school. Normally, this would be a terrible situation to be in, but I had an ace up my sleeve, grade replacement. Since I had earned terrible marks in both physics and calc, both of those classes were eligible for grade replacement.

Mid way through summer semester, I was pretty sure I was going to fail physics again. I had to have a back up plan. Dropping out of college wasn’t really an option, I had to stay in. Doing a bunch of research, I found out that I could use grade replacement to change my academic status. This meant I could use it to stay in school.

Fast forward to August 4, 2009 and summer 2009 grades are official. Normally, you’d have to wait to get grade substitution in; you’d give the form to your adviser and then they’d eventually get it to the dean of students. I didn’t have that time, I needed it done then. I printed out the form and then I personally took it around campus so it could be put in that same day, I needed to stay in school. Both my advisor and the registar said that they didn’t normally do this, but it didn’t matter to me. I got the damned form signed. A few hours later I was back in school with a 1.96 GPA.

I didn’t do that good in fall 2009, but that didn’t really matter. I got my GPA back above a 2.0 and that was all that mattered.

I got my GPA back up to a 2.18, which took my status from probation from dismissal to good standing.

After that semester, I never did go back on to academic probation or even warning. It took a lot of work, but I did graduate in December 2012.

You can believe that I was extremely happy in that picture.

Failing out of school wasn’t the worst thing that happened to me, it was terrible but I was able to overcome. It taught a lot about myself, and overcoming it remains one of my greatest achievements.

DISCUSSION (45)

RooseveltDad > E90M3
08/04/2019 at 12:32

Well done!

facw > E90M3
08/04/2019 at 12:34

Good work recovering!

I was briefly on academic probation my senior year (I got rolled pretty hard 1st semester, as I sign of how bad it was, the only class I didn’t consider dropping was one where I failed the mid-term ). That would have made for a poor GPA, but the real problem I had was that I had partners flake out on me on the final project in two different classes, so I ended up with incompletes that eventually turned into F’s (I did actually get one of those projects wrapped up in time, but my professor didn’t submit my grade on time). Not a huge calamity since I knew I didn’t really fail those courses, but awkward to explain to potential employers, since it did appear on my official transcript.

AestheticsInMotion > E90M3
08/04/2019 at 12:36

Ha! We must have taken the same physics class, I recall about a 10% pass rate with a miserable teacher.

I took a bunch of AP classes in high school and handled my senior year and my first year a t college without studying fairly well. Went down the toilet after that, as the classes got much harder and I had zero experience with studying as everything had seemed super easy up to that point. Then I started a business, and we ll... Making money was addicting. It would be nice to finish up a degree at some point though, even if it’s just a personal achievement.

bob and john > E90M3
08/04/2019 at 12:38

I’m kinda in the same boat right now.

took 4 years of mech eng. dropped out.

currently taking an online buisness degree. 6 or 7 semester in, my GPA is looking like this:
(keep in mind I need a 2.0 AVG, something I found out after my 2nd sem)
2.5> 1.8 (academic probation) > 1.91 (they extended my probation because they saw an improvment) > 2.45> 2.47

one semester I had a 3.9 GPA. that was first three months of this year. GF left me, and i doubled down on gym and school. apparently , it worked.

gin-san - shitpost specialist > E90M3
08/04/2019 at 12:40

I know many people who enjoyed school but I hated school with a passion. I probably stopped enjoying school after the sixth grade.

Your story is pretty similar to mine in university. Struggled at first, eventually got my shit together enough to graduate. School can suck my balls.

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > E90M3
08/04/2019 at 12:41

Wondering if you’re a total failure when you have no idea what you’re doing in life is a horrible feeling. College was a lot of pressure because I figured if I didn’t finish, I would have no real earning power. I was not a skilled laborer nor an entrepreneur.

I dropped out/took a h iatus in March of 2011. My overall GPA was good at the time (3.7, but at the cost of being up at 5am and hope at 8pm every crappy day ), but I flunked my last required class (I just stopped showing up because bigly personal life reasons whatever). I took a year off and had to re-enroll, submit my letter of reasoning for becoming inactive, and so on. I r eceived my degree in April of 2012.

DipodomysDeserti > E90M3
08/04/2019 at 12:49

I’ve taught environmental science courses for five years and am getting my masters in environmental resource management. If you don’t mind sharing, what was your GPA at graduation and did it affect you obtaining employment from oil companies? You’ve mentioned working in fracking and I’m curious how transcripts affect the hiring process in that field.

404 - User No Longer Available > E90M3
08/04/2019 at 13:01

Computing for Engineers... brings back memories actually, I had to help tutor a roommate to get through the programming exams back then. He was in Mechanical Engineering.

BeaterGT > E90M3
08/04/2019 at 13:18

Academics aside, w ere you at least living it up?

Poor_Sh > E90M3
08/04/2019 at 13:28

Got a 2.5ish GPA my first semester freshman year. I needed a 2.6 to keep my financial aid, and I felt ashamed at how lax I was. Long story short my GPA trended upward after every single semester (including summer classes every summer) through the next 3.5 years of undergrad and the 2 years of grad school. I didn’t always get a better GPA, but overall it trended upwards forever. My ending GPAs don’t mean anything to me, but the work it took to get there made me who I am as an Engineer. Great job, keep it up!

fintail > E90M3
08/04/2019 at 13:37

Bad memories, I remember I had an awful Calculus class, with a terrible prof and subject matter that seemed irrelevant (wow, 20+ years later it largely has been). Got a D the first time around, retook it with a better prof, A- , funny how that works.

Sometimes I miss those days for the old friends I’ve since lost touch with, going out, hanging out, etc as my worklife now varies between decent and slightly worse than hell, but I don’t think I want to go back.

Sovande > E90M3
08/04/2019 at 13:46

God I hated college. What an unmitigated waste of time and energy. I didn’t fail out until my Junior year. Had to come home and go to what is locally known as the University of Behind McDonald’s (a campus of the Northern Virginia Community College) for a semester before limping through the rest of the exercise which ended with a fizzle at graduation ceremony.

Cash Rewards > E90M3
08/04/2019 at 14:09

This is very close to my scenario. I came within a one grade being lower to losing my scholarship, which would have essentially been failing out. Never studied through highschool, took some easy classes first semester and crushed it, added a ton more second semester and shit hit the fan. First I realized I needed to study, then I realized I had no idea. By the time that happened I had managed to cut my GPA in half. Stuck it out, got my PhD eventually. Glad to see you were successful as well, and I very much relate to those feelings you had

E90M3 > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo
08/04/2019 at 14:28

The self doubt and feeling like a failure was pretty difficult to overcome. Good you were also able to finish. You’ve also mentioned something about student loans in the past, not sure if they are your or your wife’s, but I can’t imagine having to pay those back with no degree.

E90M3 > facw
08/04/2019 at 14:29

At my second round interview with Schlumberger they asked me to explain my GPA.

E90M3 > bob and john
08/04/2019 at 14:31

Have you thought about trying to go back to ME or have you decided it’s not for you?

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > E90M3
08/04/2019 at 14:32

Yeah, it’s sometimes a big hurdle especially because I’ve never met anyone who was willing to admit they have a higher balance than we did. Had a coworker once say, “Oh dude, you have no idea. I owe like $19,000!” “Wow, that sure is a lot—” ... less than what we owe lolol

E90M3 > DipodomysDeserti
08/04/2019 at 14:33

I graduated with a 2.58, when I was interviewing it was a 2.62. I did work as a field frac engineer with Schlumberger, they’re a service company. It was 2012 and the oilfield was booming and they needed engineers and didn’t really care about GPAs. They asked me to explain my GPA during my second round interview, but it didn’t seem to be detrimental to me getting a job with them. Now that I’ve got experience , GPA really doesn’t seem to a big deal.

E90M3 > BeaterGT
08/04/2019 at 14:36

That’s the thing, I wasn’t because I didn’t want that to get in the way of my schooling. Ironically, I did better later in school when I was living it up more. My fourth year I blew off the Separations homework one week to go party on a Tuesday night because I was just burnt out; I got an A in that class.

DipodomysDeserti > E90M3
08/04/2019 at 14:40

Interesting. Thank you for the info! Congrats on powering through.

E90M3 > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo
08/04/2019 at 14:40

On the subject of student loans, I need to walk back this comment from the other week . Been on several dates with a girl, she’s actually coming over for dinner in a little, who recently got her MD, and I’m pretty sure she has quite a lot of debt from medical school.

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > E90M3
08/04/2019 at 14:52

Debt can be worth it, if the reward is a high-paying career. Prioritizing repayment is where issues can arise. Especially if the money can be used for something better today (a house that appreciates, investments, or traveling while you’re young/able/single, etc.).

For me, I prefer to shed debt ASAP. But I stand here in my 30s, still with debt.

[Shrug dot lemonparty dot com]

E90M3 > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo
08/04/2019 at 15:00

Luckily, I’m debt free myself. I also prefer to shed debt as quickly as possible, but I think a lot of that has to do with the amount of time I spent unemployed.

f86sabre > E90M3
08/04/2019 at 16:25

Well done powering through. Engineering schools are an interesting animal. My path through Purdue also saw me on probation after my second semester, similar issue in that I never had to learn to study in high school. It all came easy. College was not the same at all. I ended getting back in the good graces of the school, but never had s great GPA. I think I ended with a 2.77 or something. I did much better in my major classes than I did in the gen ed stuff.

Oddly, as best that I can tell, I’m one of the more successful grads from my class of aero students and one of the few to go the leadership path. Who knows?

The advise I give students now is that they are paying for a service. If they need to wear down the profs and TAs to make sure they understand a concept then do it! I also poke at university faculty when the time arises and we are discussing getting students interested in engineering and I ask them if they still have wash out classes. That tends to put them in an interesting spot.

subexpression > E90M3
08/04/2019 at 17:32

I had a calc instructor say “section X will be the hardest part of the class”, not cover it because she went to a conference and didn’t get a stand - in, and then say she was disappointed at how low the test scores were. With another calc instructor , people were often more confused after the class and several of us found we did better on exams by studying the textbook for an hour instead of attending . I go t As and Bs in the engineering and physics classes that required applying the math subjects that I was barely passing . My academic advisor, an electrical engineering professor, found that very confusing.

I was completely miserable and left the computer engineering program for a tech job in my 3rd year. College just wasn’t my path . Most of what I’ve done over the past 20 years doesn’t seem to be taught effectively in college , which is part of why the field has so many people with either no degree or degrees in mostly- unrelated subjects . I’m very concerned about that, but it looks like the only way I could influence it would be to become an executive at a company that makes big donations to colleges and then threaten to stop doing it .

Snuze: Needs another Swede > E90M3
08/04/2019 at 17:48

That’s a great story, impressive that you were able to turn it around. Not a lot of people can say that.

I was the same in that I never had to study in high school, though I should have known better. I graduated with mostly A’s, a few B’s, and an F. That should have been an omen, but I was too ignorant to heed it. I failed AP Calc Part I my junior year, but we had a new teacher and she wasn’t the best (though certainly not the worst), and many smart students struggled, so I leaned on that crutch. I took Parts I & II my senior year with a different teacher and got an A in I and B on II, as well as a 4 and a 3 on the respecrove AP Exams.

I started college in 2002 as a Computer Engineer at the University of Maryland and I bombed or dropped most of my first semester classes, including Calc II (had to get a 4 on the AP to skip). I realized that, though I was fascinated by computers, I hated programming so I switched to Electrical engineering. That next semester I had to take... more programming. My grades continued to slide and by my first summer I was already threatened with academic probation and my graduation schedule was t he 5 year plan.

That summer I came to the conclusion that college just wasn’t for me, that I’d spent too much time shel tered at home, and that my life needed a purpose. I’ d been involved Scouting all my life and earned the rank of Eagle, was interested in the service, a nd had flirted with the idea of joining the Army out of h igh s chool, to the point that a recruiter came to my house to talk with my parents. Because of my grades (they waived the F becauss I retook the class and got an A) and my apptitude, the recruiter was pushing hard to get me into the Warrant Officer Flight Candidacy Program, otherwise known as High School to Flight School. Neither mom nor dad had been to college and they put the cabash on that and made it clear I was going to college.

I feel like th at summer after my Freshman year was a turning point in my life, its when I can definitively say I became my own man because I decided to go against my family’s wishes and enlist in the US Navy’s nuclear power program. (At this point WOFC was out of the question due to my atrocious college grades). I ended up going back to school for one more semester which was as bad or worse than the first 2 because I knew I was leaving and had run out of shits to give.

The Navy was not an easy path but I learned a lot about myself, the world. Most importantly to my future successes, I learned how to study. Nuclear Power School was no joke, its equivalent to 6 semesters of college crammed into 18 months of 8 to 12 hours a day of classroom ans hands on training. But I passed, did quite well actually, and wound up serving on a nuclear submarine.

After my enlistment I returned to my Alma Mater in 2010 with a score to settle. I re-enrolled, this time in t heir Mechanical Engineering program, and played the tricky academic clemency game. The good news is I had passed some Gen Ed classes my first time, so those knocked off requirements, but my old, bad grades carried through as well and clemency only canceled out one F. So I started off with something like a 1.81 GPA and stumbled right out of the gate with a D in Differential Equations, not passing for an engineer. I should mention here that I’d “taken” it that 3rd semester my first time, and failed with a F, so I was already 2 strikes on this class. I had to request an exemption to take it the third time, which was granted, and I g ot a B. Whew! I could stay in the engineering program.

Aside from that hiccup college was actually great the second time around. I made A’s and B’s, graduated in 3 years, and brought my GPA up to a 2.95. Without the old classes weighing me down it would have been a 3.5. I also had fun, participating in on campus activities like the Student Veterans group and Formula SAE team. And the best part was that Navy discipline and study ability - Id roll in to campus at 5 AM when all was quiet, study, do homework, take the early classes, then go drink and party like a boss!

I do sometimes wonder how things would have been different if I'd tried to stick it out like you did, if I'd have been able to turn it around and succeed or if I'd have failed out? But I can't change the past so I'll never know, but I can say I wouldn't trade my experiences for the world, even if it did take me 11 years to graduate college.

bob and john > E90M3
08/04/2019 at 18:03

part of me wants to.

but after realizing its not as much building and more number crunching ...and meetings...ehh.

E90M3 > bob and john
08/04/2019 at 20:57

It can really depend on the company. The MEs at my company basically design stuff all day. We go to them with problems or an idea how something could be improved and then they design something.

E90M3 > Snuze: Needs another Swede
08/04/2019 at 21:02

I think your story is more impressive than mine and a lot more circuitous.

Out of college, I believe my dad was a civilian test engineer in the shipyard for nuclear reactors.

TheRealBicycleBuck > Snuze: Needs another Swede
08/04/2019 at 21:19

Good for you! I’ve seen the Navy help more than one person get their lives (and study habits) turned around.

TheRealBicycleBuck > E90M3
08/04/2019 at 21:21

Good job. As an assistant professor, I watched many students try, fail, take advantage of the system, then fail again, and again. It’s nice to see someone make corrections and be successful.

TheRealBicycleBuck > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo
08/04/2019 at 21:25

Student loans? We have more in student loans than the value of our house. I’m paying for six degrees..

TheRealBicycleBuck > f86sabre
08/04/2019 at 21:29

“The advise I give students now is that they are paying for a service. If they need to wear down the profs and TAs to make sure they understand a concept then do it!”

EXACTLY! On the first day of class, I told students that they were paying roughly $6.50 an hour for my time. Every class was a meal from McD onalds, every lab was a $20.

bob and john > E90M3
08/04/2019 at 22:00

key word there: design.

after those year at uni and a little bit of soul searching..I realized I like to DO shit. not sit at a desk and push papers around.

Hence, current plan to become a pilot.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > E90M3
08/04/2019 at 22:47

Thank you, though I’m rather more impressed you had the wherewithall to fix yourself. I needed a good old fashioned boot in the ass to do it. I guess it’s all a matter of perspective.

Your father was probably a STE (Shift Test Engineer). I work with a bunch of STEs in my current gig. They are v ery smart folks. What yard did he work at?

Also, I don’t know if I told you this story, but I was at a career fair at school and Schlumberger was there. I went up to talk to them and asked about on campus interviews and this and that. And during this whole process I referred to them as “Slum-burger”. The recruiter let me make a fool of myself for a couple minutes before politely correcting me. As I left I made a quip, something like “Thanks, but I won’t hold my breath for a call for an interview” and she just smiled. Needless to say I did not get a call.

WilliamsSW > E90M3
08/04/2019 at 23:32

I think sometimes life tests you, and you need to be ready to respond. Sometimes the tests are harder than others.

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > TheRealBicycleBuck
08/05/2019 at 03:06

But your household is therefore SIX times smarter than me!

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > fintail
08/05/2019 at 03:10

Math is a huge roulette of variance between profs for the same damn course. I dropped half a dozen upper-level courses and retook them with a different prof and always got an A- or better. The inconsistency across the department pissed me off to no end. It was always like two completely different courses.

TheRealBicycleBuck > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo
08/05/2019 at 06:27

Degrees/=/smarter

E90M3 > Snuze: Needs another Swede
08/05/2019 at 08:13

It was more of your perseverance than anything else.

That sounds right. I believe he was at Norfolk, this was in the early 80s. He later went on to work for the Nuclear Regulatory C ommission.

It took a lot of trying to get an interview with them. I must have given my resume to several of them before I went to an info session and when I gave my resume to one of the guys there he asked if I want an interview. The president of my fraternity my first year went to work for them so I knew how to pronounce the name. Didn’t commit the mortal sin of mispronouncing the name.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > E90M3
08/05/2019 at 09:09

“ redshirt semester” LOL

E90M3 > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
08/05/2019 at 09:26

Pretty much, since I had to take every class over again.

fintail > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo
08/05/2019 at 09:32

All of this makes me think the aversion to math might be related to the teaching more than the student. I remember I didn’t love it in high school, but I got by, sometimes with good marks. In college however, it could be hell, other than a couple of stats classes that no surprise were led by a good prof. One learned to be careful about choosing a course.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > E90M3
08/05/2019 at 10:51

I was curious to talk to them, see what the work was like, but wasn’t dead set on a job with them or in the oil industry in general. Though I do enjoy field work, so in retrospect it might have been a fun gig . Although given your experiences it sounds like it’s a pretty volatile market as well.

Norfolk is one of only a couple yards that can perform reactor refueling, so that sounds right. It also s ounds like your father had a pretty interesting career, going from an STE to working for the NRC.

And thanks. It’s been a tough journey, but well worth it. Judging from the comments a lot of Oppos have had interesting journeys, but many of us have perservered. That’s one of the reasons I really like this community, lots of good, honest, hard working people.

E90M3 > TheRealBicycleBuck
08/05/2019 at 10:58

I’m glad that system was in place and I was able to right my wrongs. I was also happy I didn’t fail out and have to apply for re- admittance, that would not have been fun. They also had you meet several bench marks, which would have been more stressful. I got to stay in without an action plan, I just had to get above a 2.0 the fall semester.